Keeping the Sabbath day

[Evakool]

Does anyone really keep the Sabbath day as it says in Exodus 16:29 on the Sabbath day stay in your place don't leave your place so no one can go to church on the Sabbath day as you have to stay in your place of course people will say Jesus healed the blind man on the Sabbath so you can do good on the Sabbath day going to church is good Jesus with his disciples walking through a field picked the crop that was growing in the field so Jesus was harvesting working on the Sabbath day so we must be able to work also on the Sabbath church will have to be held on another day as no one can travel on the Sabbath day it doesn't say in the bible what day to attend the synagogue or church but it can't be on the Sabbath day if you want to live by the law you have to keep all the laws God writes how it is be done not a watered down version of the Law as people are keeping then you are just messing around with God's laws but if the church did keep the Sabbath day law as it says in the Exodus 16 29 many and many people will leave the church people won't give two days to God one the Sabbath and the other day for church

 

[adamjedgar]

Th

The SDA church makes up alot of what they claim to have done they have done some of it but not in that numbers. Like the Catholics who have many hospitals and schools and homes for children with out family. The SDA church makes up stories like the signs of the times magazine every month on the front cover will be sports person like a race car driver or tennis player and there will be a story about who is ever on the front cover these people are not SDA church members as they play on Saturday's and there is no mention of them going to any church in the write up signs of the times magazine makes it look like these people are SDA members by putting them on the cover. And the songs that they sing in their churchs are not written by SDA members they are from other real churches. And I wouldn't call the SDA church Protestant they are more a religious cult that takes some ideas from real churches and claim it was them had it first and other churches use it now after all the net wealth of the SDA church world wide is 15 billion dollars just think if the Catholic church the SDA church Jehovah witness and Mormans with all their money could pay off the debt of many countries if I were to get into government I would tax religious groups no more tax exemption for any of them.

There is nothing more testing of the very meaning of the word intelligence than when individuals get into the habit of listening to wives tales and ignore the wealth of publicly avialable evidence that can be obtained within seconds at any "local keyboard"

1. My wife is a teacher in the SDA school system and I have also taught in public system...I can tell you that, in this example, the school system numbers are not " made up". Those statistics i presented come from google AI, not the church directly. If AI is presenting false information, id suggest you complain to Google about that but if it isnt, then you need to accept the facts for what they are...facts!

2. The SDA hospital system is famous around the world because the reality matches statistics that are on public record...they are not "made up".

3. Honestly, if you were truly writing a research paper, you would present facts you have obtained from various sources in your research here, however, what im reading instead are not even up to the standard of wives tales. I would suggest you are simply time-wasting now. Get some statistics then we can talk or, are you going to claim "the election was rigged" despite the real evidence proving that claim false?

4. Blaming religious denominations for following western societies taxation laws and using that as amunition to infer/label them as the cause of poverty in the world, despite the amount of money countries spend on military might at the expense of citizens struggling to even survive...I'd suggest you head off in that direction than the measly $15 billion the SDA church might be worth. I havent a clue what the sda church net worth is btw...however what I do know is, its not enough to dramatically change poverty because the issue is far more complicated than just money. Having said this, I agree more should be done...everyone here I think would agree with that.

 

[adamjedgar]

I am just asking as the SDA couple I knew she worked at a SDA school as teachers assistant and the school used to take her tithes straight from her pay he was against that as he said you you have to make the decision to give your self I said then the church would never get the money as you don't give he said they have enough money as it is

Tithe is a donation. Donations are tax deductable and may be taken out of wages prior to them being taxed. That is not something set by the SDA church. If you dont like this, complain to your local politician. An organisation operating within the laws of the land in which it operates is not doing anything untoward.

Temporary suspension of limits on charitable contributions​

In most cases, the amount of charitable cash contributions taxpayers can deduct on Schedule A as an itemized deduction is limited to a percentage (usually 60 percent) of the taxpayer’s adjusted gross income (AGI). Qualified contributions are not subject to this limitation. Individuals may deduct qualified contributions of up to 100 percent of their adjusted gross income. https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-p...anizations/charitable-contribution-deductions

Churches, Integrated Auxiliaries, and Conventions or Associations of Churches

Overview of tax-exempt status for churches, integrated auxiliaries and conventions or associations of churches.

Exemption Requirements - 501(c)(3) Organizations

A brief description of the requirements for exemption under IRC Section 501(c)(3).

Whilst on the topic of tithe, I should address the possible question "what does the church do with that revenue"?

Now whilst i am not a fly on the wall inside the finance department of SDA movement, the published statement on the churches on website would answer that question...

again google AI saves me some time here:

 

[adamjedgar]

In answer to the question, what does the church do with tithe money?

Google AI Overview
In the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) Church, tithes are sent from local congregations to local conferences, which then distribute them to various branches of the church:

Local conference: The local conference receives the tithe and uses a portion of it for ministry in the conference.

Union, division, and general conference: A portion of the tithe goes to the union, division, and general conference.

Church administration: A portion of the tithe goes to conference administration.

Ministry expenses: A portion of the tithe goes to ministry expenses, such as paying pastors, chaplains, and Bible workers.

Evangelism: A portion of the tithe goes to evangelism projects.

Member ministries: A portion of the tithe goes to member ministries, such as Adventist schools and media.

Conference office expenses: A portion of the tithe goes to conference office expenses.

Camp meeting expenses: A portion of the tithe goes to camp meeting expenses.

Retirement benefits: A portion of the tithe goes to retirement benefits for church employees like pastors and teachers.

Special assistance: A portion of the tithe goes to special assistance.

The percentage distribution of tithes varies somewhat between conferences.

 

[Evakool]

I don't care if SDA church takes tithes straight from people's pay I don't care if they say that they keep the Sabbath day I don't care about what they claim that they have done I don't care about anything that goes on in your church it was assigned me to do this report I only mentioned that I knew some SDA members years ago so that's why I got the task. Today I had to show my findings and not everyone who works here believes in God many are atheists even they concluded that SDA church is a religious cult. The reason why is shouldn't a Christian church group be telling about Jesus as in the new testament not their own religious group beliefs as one of them said why would they even be debating anything about their church organisation when Jesus is the way and if they know that the other person they are taking to is already a believer in Jesus what are trying to do get them into their church to be a member. This a atheist saying this by the way. One other person even pointed out in Act's the decipiles were telling everyone about Jesus not about religious group one person even said if it came down to it that ether you can only believe in Jesus not or SDA church not both. The SDA church member would pick SDA church. Another person at the meeting suggested that they have made SDA church a god. Next week they want to put all the information into a Artificial intelligence computer to see what it will conclude I have used it before and it's really fast I wanted to find out what is the best 4wd car to buy and it come up with the answer in 3 seconds but we don't go by what the computer will say it's just something we have why not use it.

 

[adamjedgar]

I don't care if SDA church takes tithes straight from people's pay I don't care if they say that they keep the Sabbath day I don't care about what they claim that they have done I don't care about anything that goes on in your church it was assigned me to do this report I only mentioned that I knew some SDA members years ago so that's why I got the task. Today I had to show my findings and not everyone who works here believes in God many are atheists even they concluded that SDA church is a religious cult. The reason why is shouldn't a Christian church group be telling about Jesus as in the new testament not their own religious group beliefs as one of them said why would they even be debating anything about their church organisation when Jesus is the way and if they know that the other person they are taking to is already a believer in Jesus what are trying to do get them into their church to be a member. This a atheist saying this by the way. One other person even pointed out in Act's the decipiles were telling everyone about Jesus not about religious group one person even said if it came down to it that ether you can only believe in Jesus not or SDA church not both. The SDA church member would pick SDA church. Another person at the meeting suggested that they have made SDA church a god. Next week they want to put all the information into a Artificial intelligence computer to see what it will conclude I have used it before and it's really fast I wanted to find out what is the best 4wd car to buy and it come up with the answer in 3 seconds but we don't go by what the computer will say it's just something we have why not use it.

Funny you should mention 4wd's...im a b it of a 4wd'er myself actually.
Us religious cult members just love getting our modern chariots dirty:

gladiator in water.jpg

drive.google.com

I note that in your intial question on this thread, you asked about the Sabbath. Im not sure why the interest in religious cults...it appears that you are focused on only 1 Sabbath keeping denomination...there are others you could research:

Seventh Day Baptists
Sabbatarian Pentecostals
Church of God - Seventh Day
United Church of God
Philadelphia Church of God
Judaism and Islam.

Given you wrote a paper on this, id be interested in reading it. A good academic paper is always of interest to me so im looking forward to critiquing your work.

 

[Evakool]

I wasn't going to go on with this anymore but one more time. It says in Exodus 20:8-11 don't even get anyone else to get your work done on the Sabbath day don't get other people to work for you and on Exodus 16:29 it says stay in your place you can look it up and read it your self. So a orthodox Jews they turn the power off to the main in their fuse box because someone is working at the power station and if you travel and there is a problem on the road police will have to be called and your making them work for you as well then it is not keeping the Sabbath day holy if there is problem's when you are outside. Of course the other chap came up with John 5:2-18 about the man carrying he mat on the Sabbath day so that means to me you can now work on the Sabbath day. There's lots of other churches and religious groups that keep the Sabbath day but SDA church still doesn't recognise them as believer's as only SDA church is the real church. And as for the SDA church having lots of hospitals and all the other stuff you mentioned Catholics and Mormons and many other churches and government's all have the same the government has more than any other church group doesn't mean that it's their ticket to heaven but the government does help more people than any religious group. So it doesn't matter if you still don't have Jesus. And this is a report on the SDA church is a religious cult for a government department not a report for a assessment for university I would of just asked a AI computer save everyone time computer's don't lie they don't have feelings towards one way or another.

 

[adamjedgar]

I wasn't going to go on with this anymore but one more time. It says in Exodus 20:8-11 don't even get anyone else to get your work done on the Sabbath day don't get other people to work for you and on Exodus 16:29 it says stay in your place you can look it up and read it your self. So a orthodox Jews they turn the power off to the main in their fuse box because someone is working at the power station and if you travel and there is a problem on the road police will have to be called and your making them work for you as well then it is not keeping the Sabbath day holy if there is problem's when you are outside. Of course the other chap came up with John 5:2-18 about the man carrying he mat on the Sabbath day so that means to me you can now work on the Sabbath day. There's lots of other churches and religious groups that keep the Sabbath day but SDA church still doesn't recognise them as believer's as only SDA church is the real church. And as for the SDA church having lots of hospitals and all the other stuff you mentioned Catholics and Mormons and many other churches and government's all have the same the government has more than any other church group doesn't mean that it's their ticket to heaven but the government does help more people than any religious group. So it doesn't matter if you still don't have Jesus. And this is a report on the SDA church is a religious cult for a government department not a report for a assessment for university I would of just asked a AI computer save everyone time computer's don't lie they don't have feelings towards one way or another.

Look the plain way to follow the Sabbath command is to listen to Christs exclamation...

Do good on the Sabbath

You keep attempting to align SDA Sabbath beliefs with the legalism that Christ spoke out against.

Christ talked about rescuing livestock from a pit on the Sabbath.

The SDA church is far more harmo ious with the Evangelical movement on these things than it is the legalism of ancient Jewish culture (specifically the pharasees and Saducees and priests etc).

The main difference is, we continue to believe in the relevance of the Mosaic Sanctuary in that it always illustrates and explains salvation.

The first element in the tabernacle is the alter of sacrifice.

If the Mosaic tabernacle and the law were done away with at the cross...

can you explain how it is that the alter of sacrifice comes first in the tabernacle, the laying on of hands by the priest onto the scapegoat on the day of atonement came last and, all Evangelical churchs as far as im aware all accept that salvation (the second coming) has not happened yet? Even JWs don't believe Armageddon has happened yet...we (humanity) are clearly all still here!

Do you really understand what the laying on of hands by the priest onto the scapegoat actually represents in the plan of salvation timeline? (Im not sure you do)

Again, how do you explain all of the above if the tabernacle/sanctuary and the law finished at the cross?

It is o ly the ritual of sacrificing sheep and goats that became unnecessary after the cross...the way we are saved and redeemed has never changed and that's the point of the tabernacle/sanctuary. It has always illustrated how salvation works....even Abraham was considered righteous by his faith...he was saved through faith (as was the young Isaac in particular as he lay on the altar waiting for a knife to be plunged into his heart!)

 

[Evakool]

Exodus 20:8-11 is a command and so is exodus 16:29 after the Pharisees changed law to fit their life style that on the Sabbath day you can attend the synagogue it doesn't say what day to go to the synagogue or what day to go to church can't be on the Sabbath you have to stay at home. And if Jesus says to do good on the Sabbath day then people will do as they think is good so if the boss at work needs you to work Saturday as the order has to be ready Monday first thing and will pay double you can give more tithes and the boss will be happy that you came in that's good. And what about all the hospitals you say the SDA church run's people have to work there on the Sabbath day you can go on and on how the man carryed his mat on the Sabbath day so to other people good is different to what a person sees as good. There's a danger not believing that Jesus is Lord of all and everything is under Jesus feet and that Jesus is the new covenant by insisting that you have to keep the Sabbath day as well as believing in Jesus that's not what it says in the new testament in Galatians it all about Jews who believed in Jesus and wanted some of the law as well. Paul says if you go back to the law Christ is of no value to you meaning you don't believe who Jesus is and why he came in the first place. And as all the hospitals you say that the SDA church run's 170 of them a lady at work who is Catholic says that's nothing Catholic church run's 5000 hospitals around the world they are biggest heath care provider second to the government so let's all join the Catholic church as they run many hospitals. Or let's all join the government as they help millions of people with health care welfare pensions natural disaster relief. What you think?

 

[adamjedgar]

Exodus 20:8-11 is a command and so is exodus 16:29 after the Pharisees changed law to fit their life style that on the Sabbath day you can attend the synagogue it doesn't say what day to go to the synagogue or what day to go to church can't be on the Sabbath you have to stay at home. And if Jesus says to do good on the Sabbath day then people will do as they think is good so if the boss at work needs you to work Saturday as the order has to be ready Monday first thing and will pay double you can give more tithes and the boss will be happy that you came in that's good. And what about all the hospitals you say the SDA church run's people have to work there on the Sabbath day you can go on and on how the man carryed his mat on the Sabbath day so to other people good is different to what a person sees as good. There's a danger not believing that Jesus is Lord of all and everything is under Jesus feet and that Jesus is the new covenant by insisting that you have to keep the Sabbath day as well as believing in Jesus that's not what it says in the new testament in Galatians it all about Jews who believed in Jesus and wanted some of the law as well. Paul says if you go back to the law Christ is of no value to you meaning you don't believe who Jesus is and why he came in the first place. And as all the hospitals you say that the SDA church run's 170 of them a lady at work who is Catholic says that's nothing Catholic church run's 5000 hospitals around the world they are biggest heath care provider second to the government so let's all join the Catholic church as they run many hospitals. Or let's all join the government as they help millions of people with health care welfare pensions natural disaster relief. What you think?

Providing care to patients on the Sabbath, electricity, water, emergency services...I dont have a problem with any of that.

In terms of whether those people should accept wages, particularly those who intentionally work weekend shifts for the higher rates, its not my place to comment on the choices of others there.

You cite Galatians regarding thr covenant...may I ask, how then do you explain that a much later writing by the apostle John says the following...

Revelation 14.12
Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus

Clearly saints who are to be saved and go to heaven are individuals who

1. keep the commandments of God
2. Have the testimony and faith of Jesus.


The book of Revelation was written in the A.D 90's...almost 60 years after Christs crucifixion.

So if the law was done away with at the cross, clearly no one told the apostle John about it.

Given he was the last living apostle, the apostle Paul died in the A.D 60's if my memory is correct, 30 years before John wrote Revelation...so that's a really big dilemma there for Sunday worshipping churches as it tramples all over the new covenant arguments interpretation of Pauls writings regarding the law being thrown out at the cross!

Let's also not forget, of the two, the apostle John was eyewitness to the ministry of Christ...not Paul. So either Paul is wrong or, he is being misinterpreted! (I'm going with the later)

 

[Evakool]

Well Jesus must of forgot some of the commandments in Matthew 19:16-22 the rich young man came and asked him which commandments Jesus only named six. Then Matthew 5:21-47 if you read it Jesus again says commandments but still no Sabbath day commandment. I can't find that Jesus said for any body to keep the Sabbath day. If you and a religious group say's we keep the Law the Sabbath day but does it not the way it is instructed to be done then what's the use? If I get to much change when I buy at the shop and reliste it when I get to the car well I didn't steel it the person gave it to me should I take it back? If I ring up to work and tell them I don't feel well to go in today but go shopping because later I feel better am I lieing should I go in after I feel better or do as I like? If you think that you are keeping the Sabbath day you are just fooling your self. When Israel was out in the desert there were no hospitals no power stations no roads with traffic what does it mean to keep the Sabbath day holy what's holy if you drive to your church and there's a traffic jam or someone drive's out in front of you of course you get angry at the other person at the traffic jam at the kids because now one of them has to use the bathroom so how is that keeping the Sabbath day holy if you stayed at your place for the Sabbath as it says it would of been holy.

 

[Evakool]

In Colossians 2:13-14 Christ death has fulfilled the requirements of the Law. In Galatians 3:13-14 Jesus took the coruse of the Law. With Scriptures like these I don't think the SDA church is even a Christian church group they have made a big business out of religion saying that you have to keep the Sabbath day just so people will stay there. When I went with people that I knew to the SDA church quite a few times I thought that this is not a Christian church just a religious group they claim to believe in Jesus but so does the Jehovah witness and Mormans but when you are there Jesus is no where to be heard. Even the woman who the SDA church says is a prophet is fulse if her prophecies were fulse how can anyone trust in this church.

 

[adamjedgar]

Well Jesus must of forgot some of the commandments in Matthew 19:16-22 the rich young man came and asked him which commandments Jesus only named six. Then Matthew 5:21-47 if you read it Jesus again says commandments but still no Sabbath day commandment. I can't find that Jesus said for any body to keep the Sabbath day. If you and a religious group say's we keep the Law the Sabbath day but does it not the way it is instructed to be done then what's the use? If I get to much change when I buy at the shop and reliste it when I get to the car well I didn't steel it the person gave it to me should I take it back? If I ring up to work and tell them I don't feel well to go in today but go shopping because later I feel better am I lieing should I go in after I feel better or do as I like? If you think that you are keeping the Sabbath day you are just fooling your self. When Israel was out in the desert there were no hospitals no power stations no roads with traffic what does it mean to keep the Sabbath day holy what's holy if you drive to your church and there's a traffic jam or someone drive's out in front of you of course you get angry at the other person at the traffic jam at the kids because now one of them has to use the bathroom so how is that keeping the Sabbath day holy if you stayed at your place for the Sabbath as it says it would of been holy.

1. An individual reciting a set of rules in order to answer a question is not required to name all of them...the point was made after just a few were mentioned...this is not uncommon for any human...we do the same thing today. Thats what the term "getting the gist of it" means.

2. Im a little bewildered by your claim "Christ did not say keep the Sabbath day". I have to ask, what is the difference between COMMANDING and LEADING BY EXAMPLE?

Luke 4:16

He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read,

3. I don't follow the relevance of the middle sections of your statement above. Keeping commandments is a personal thing, its up to the individual to live according to the whisperings of the Holy Spirit. If an individual decides to lie, steal, break the Sabbath by going shopping (i regularly shop on the Sabbath)...none of that has anything to do anothers individuals expectation that you must "give unto God what is Gods"! Living the testimony of Jesus is a personal thing...its not for others to determine what you should do (guidance is just that...guidance and nothing more).

I think isolating the 10 commandments into an array of "what ifs" in order to come up with some kind of moral justification for not keeping them is a theological fools errand. I did not write the bible, nor did i inspire it, however, i most certainly am not going to try to explain away anything written in its pages.

I am a sinner and much of what i do condemns me...i live with hope in the promise given to us that my "belief in the Lord Jesus Christ is enough to get me saved" (Acts 16:31)

 

[adamjedgar]

In Colossians 2:13-14 Christ death has fulfilled the requirements of the Law. In Galatians 3:13-14 Jesus took the coruse of the Law. With Scriptures like these I don't think the SDA church is even a Christian church group they have made a big business out of religion saying that you have to keep the Sabbath day just so people will stay there. When I went with people that I knew to the SDA church quite a few times I thought that this is not a Christian church just a religious group they claim to believe in Jesus but so does the Jehovah witness and Mormans but when you are there Jesus is no where to be heard. Even the woman who the SDA church says is a prophet is fulse if her prophecies were fulse how can anyone trust in this church.

I agree with everything you have said above however i diverge with you on the interpretation . I will present my theological interpretation i will also explain why I believe my interpretations below are valid (although not exhaustive):

1. The meaning of fulfilment of the law is not "doing away with the law". To fulfill means to make atonement for "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).
How can i know the above?
Because if the law was done away with 2000 years ago when Christ was crucified, then i am allowed to break any and all laws in existence...i do not need to keep any of them. That means i can cheat, steal, kill, commit adultery, bear false witness, take drugs, rape women, butcher animals for sport, deficate on the front entries of other peoples houses, punch holes in their car windscreens, abduct their children, right? All of that is covered by grace...so it doesnt matter what i do.

I hope that you can sense that the above is absolutely ridiculous. Given that, why isolate a signal commandment and yet keep all the others? Before you answer that question, i suggest you do some personal study on how and when the changing of the day of worship occurred.

Have you ever heard of the book "From Sabbath to Sunday" by Samuel Bacchiocchi?

Samuel is/was a biblical scholar who somehow managed to get himself enrolled into the Pontif University in Italy and obtained access to the Vatican archives for his research (at the time, the idea that a non-catholic protestant was allowed into those archives was almost unheard of). The book is well worth the read. If you truly want to have a better understanding of the history of the change of day of worship from Sabbath to Sunday, you need to read this book. The Vatican archive contains some very damning evidence that illustrates what really happened there.

Finally, E G White...

I personally do not use Ellen Whites writings as support for my beliefs (not a single one of them).
I am a Seventh Day Adventist Pastors kid and so the last 40'ish years of my life have been surrounded by and immerse in the theology and doctrines of my dad. I can tell you, even he does not believe that any of her writings should be used in the manner Ellen Whites attacks subscribe to her (that her writings are sola Scriptura).

The appropriate way to read EG White is in a manner that helps illustrate existing bible theology and doctrine. Not a shred of it should change anything intrinsic to the bible. The Bible provides us with all the theology and doctrine we need to understand Gods wishes for us...we do not need any further enlightenment there. Having said that, if someone dedicates their life to illustrating the bible without changing its meanings, i have no problem with that. Also, the plagiarism claims against her are mostly rubbish and irrelevant. She was not a scholar and had little formal academic education...so how an individual of that level of education should be expected to produce works up to the standards of university professors??? (ill bet even you are unlikely to be good in that area of literature so why hold that against her?)

In any case...i do not use EG White for theology and doctrine proofs. I obtain those evidences exclusively from the referencing and cross-referencing of passages intrinsic to the Bible. Am i influenced by others who write on those topics? Of course!

However, as the "Jewish Bereans did, I search the scriptures daily to check if those things are true" (Acts 17:10-12)

 

[Evakool]

Of course Jesus went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day to talk to the Jewish people that's where they will be on use him going on Sunday or any other day they won't be there. If you or your church don't find that Jesus is enough for salvation and you think that a law given to Israel in the desert to remind them that they were once slaves in Egypt then you probably don't have any salvation and you will be judged with the unbelievers. What you think that other churches and Jehovah witness Mormons don't keep the law like don't murder don't commit adultery don't lie don't steal honour your mother and father even lots of atheists do these law's but it's not going to get them into heaven as Jesus says I am the only way to the father there is no other way but by me. Of course the SDA church knows that these other churches and religious groups don't keep the Sabbath day as Jesus never said to keep the Sabbath day so what SDA church does is to take this law and make it a requirement to get to heaven and the SDA church member's won't leave the SDA because none of the other churches keep this law that was given to the Jews in the desert to remember how they were once slaves in Egypt. So the SDA church is lieing to keep people there even your prophet Mrs White didn't make it to heaven as she said many many things that only a non believer would say like if you disregard my writings you also disregard the bible as well Jesus is Michael the archangel there are many other of her writings that are not of God and the many prophecies she said how many happened so she is a fulse prophet the SDA church talk's more about Mrs White then Jesus in their church meetings I have been there and heard it for my self.

 

[adamjedgar]

Of course Jesus went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day to talk to the Jewish people that's where they will be on use him going on Sunday or any other day they won't be there. If you or your church don't find that Jesus is enough for salvation and you think that a law given to Israel in the desert to remind them that they were once slaves in Egypt then you probably don't have any salvation and you will be judged with the unbelievers. What you think that other churches and Jehovah witness Mormons don't keep the law like don't murder don't commit adultery don't lie don't steal honour your mother and father even lots of atheists do these law's but it's not going to get them into heaven as Jesus says I am the only way to the father there is no other way but by me. Of course the SDA church knows that these other churches and religious groups don't keep the Sabbath day as Jesus never said to keep the Sabbath day so what SDA church does is to take this law and make it a requirement to get to heaven and the SDA church member's won't leave the SDA because none of the other churches keep this law that was given to the Jews in the desert to remember how they were once slaves in Egypt. So the SDA church is lieing to keep people there even your prophet Mrs White didn't make it to heaven as she said many many things that only a non believer would say like if you disregard my writings you also disregard the bible as well Jesus is Michael the archangel there are many other of her writings that are not of God and the many prophecies she said how many happened so she is a fulse prophet the SDA church talk's more about Mrs White then Jesus in their church meetings I have been there and heard it for my self.

Righteousness by faith through grace already existed long before Israelites went into Egypt and the subsequent Exodus hundreds of years later. How do we know this?

Genesis 15:6 Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

Romans 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

Romans 4:20 Yet he did not waver through disbelief in the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God,

Nehemiah 9:8
You found his heart faithful before You, and made a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites and Hittites, of the Amorites and Perizzites, of the Jebusites and Girgashites--to give it to his descendants. You have kept Your promise, because You are righteous.

All of the above references are concordance ones linked to Genesis 15:6...they specifically tell us that righteousness by faith has always been the way that we are saved. So the New covenant "now righteousness by faith" argument is 100% wrong. It has always been that way as Abraham demonstrated.

Also, note the difference between the old and new covenants:

Old Covenant - Exodus 19:7&8 (the promise was made by the people)

So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all these words that the LORD had commanded him. And all the people responded together, “We will do everything the LORD has commanded.” So Moses brought the people’s answer back to the LORD.

The Israelites failed in the above promise and so God proposed a new one in Jeremiah (note this is 400 years before Christ)

New Covenant - Jeremiah 31:31&32

31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32;not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

So the difference between the old and New covenants is actually quite simple and I would argue that every Christian denomination that worships on Sunday gets this 100% wrong...

Under the Old Covenant, the People attempted to keep the law themselves...a law written on tablets of stone. However, they failed miserably at keeping that promise so God, in his wisdom and grace offered a better one. The New Covenant - "I will write my laws on their hearts and in their minds" (not on tablets of stone anymore).

I believe this is one of the main reasons why we do not find the Ark of the Covenant...we are not expected to get our morality from Tablets of stone anymore...its already built into us (secularists would call it a conscience or moral compass i suppose. They say its through social conditioning, but i believe its put into us by God and via the whisperings of the Holy Spirit)

Anyway, so the difference between the two covenants
Old covenant = people make the promise to keep the law on tablets of stone
New Covenant = God makes the promise to put the law into our hearts and minds (so we are without excuse)

 

[Evakool]

Show me where Jesus says keep the Sabbath day he tells people the rich young man six of them then he says four other of the ten commandments but never says the Sabbath law if it is so important Jesus would of mentioned it. From Adam to Moses there is not a mention of Sabbath day at all but according to you it's the most important law to keep so important but never mentioned until the ten commandments to what people the Israelites no one else was there when Moses read the ten commandments only the Israelites who left Egypt you are just makeing the bible to what you want it to mean for your religious group. Just the fact that your church is on the internet with many sites to defend their SDA church not to bring people to Jesus but to bring people to the SDA church it like taking to atheist's some how your group is right about everything in the bible but at your meetings you read from some woman's books that had visions from some where.

 

[Chief]

Show me where Jesus says keep the Sabbath day he tells people the rich young man six of them then he says four other of the ten commandments but never says the Sabbath law if it is so important Jesus would of mentioned it. From Adam to Moses there is not a mention of Sabbath day at all but according to you it's the most important law to keep so important but never mentioned until the ten commandments to what people the Israelites no one else was there when Moses read the ten commandments only the Israelites who left Egypt you are just makeing the bible to what you want it to mean for your religious group. Just the fact that your church is on the internet with many sites to defend their SDA church not to bring people to Jesus but to bring people to the SDA church it like taking to atheist's some how your group is right about everything in the bible but at your meetings you read from some woman's books that had visions from some where.

You do realize that without the Sabbath you cannot terminate the 7-day weekly cycle, right? And if you cannot terminate the 7-day weekly cycle then you are essentially doing away with creation, which takes away God's authority as the creator of everything that exists. The Sabbath is a fundamental issue. It asserts God's authority as the creator.

Going by your responses, no amount of "showing" will convince you. I already provided verses where Christ Himself demonstrated how to keep the Sabbath and commanded His followers to do the same, but you keep pressing while ignoring all the evidence. May the Lord lead you to Himself.

 

[Evakool]

You don't understand that Jesus didn't come to make a silly religion he came to save people all SDA church worships iscreation like it says in Romans that they worship creation not the creator. I watched a documentary about a Muslim cleric who was so famous in the Muslim world that they would fly him first class and put him up in five star hotel at one meeting he said that he would read the Christian Bible and find all the faults and prove it wrong. After several months he said that he is has become a Christian because the bible is true he shaved off he's beard and wears normal clothes and is a minister in the USA. He was bought up a Muslim and teached Muslims how to be Muslims but after reading the Bible has found Jesus. But the SDA church would say no not enough he has to join the SDA church also for salvation you see how you don't really believe in Jesus but a day is your god don't say anything lies like no we don't of course Jesus is needed for salvation once someone starts going to your church all they will hear is about the Sabbath day I have been many times and that's all they teach. Jesus rose on the first day of the week so it is good to start the week at church hearing about Jesus not something that does not concern you as you were never slaves in Egypt. It's all made some that SDA church can keep the people there as no other church go's on Saturday day there are some that also keep the Sabbath but the SDA church does not recognise them only the SDA church is the only way to God it's a religious cult for sure.

 

[Chief]

Why are you so angry? I think you have a deep-rooted issue that is evidently beyond the scope of this discourse. You can find the contacts of the General Conference of the SDA Church here; I hope they are better placed to respond to your accusations and issues concerning church administration.

 

[Evakool]

Read 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 what you think about this scripture?